An early conversation that explored possibilities cider was only beginning to consider.
As Cider Chat moves toward its 500th episode, we revisit conversations from the earliest seasons, taking a long view of the moments that quietly shaped where cider and this podcast would go.
This episode, originally recorded in Season One, features legendary winemaker Randall Grahm, founder of Bonny Doon Vineyard and a James Beard Award winner. At the time, inviting a winemaker onto a cider podcast felt like stepping outside the expected boundaries of the category. Looking back now, it marked a turning point.
Long before many of these topics became common discussion in cider, this conversation explores:
- indigenous and wild yeast fermentation
- the use of pied de cuve to build healthy native fermentations
- beginning fermentations de novo each vintage
- blending philosophy borrowed from wine
- quince used as structure and aroma rather than juice
- perry through a winemaker’s lens
- antique fruits like medlars
- cider as an expression of curiosity and place
This interview also introduced Ria to French cider maker Eric Bordelet, setting in motion a journey that would later expand Cider Chat far beyond its early scope.
You’ll also hear early discussion of Randall’s Popelouchum project, an ambitious exploration of biodiversity, terroir, and planting from seed.
A small present-day connection: cider maker Nicole Todd, now at Santa Cruz Cider Company, worked at Bonny Doon Vineyard year before it changed hands. This led to a collaboration project where the cidery used Popelouchum fruit to produce a extended the Querry as modeled by Grahm. If bottles from those releases are still circulating, they are worth seeking out. Check out the link below as there is currently a limited supply.
This replay has been lightly edited to remove time-specific announcements so the focus remains on the conversation itself.
This early conversation with Randall Grahm remains one of the foundational cider history interviews in the Cider Chat archive.
Listen to this follow up to my original conversation with Randall on site at his new endeavour Popelouchum in Season 4 Episode 188: Cider and Wine Safari with Randall Grahm at Popelouchum
Contact Info for Randall Grahm
- Website: https://www.popelouchum.com/
Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture.
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- 00:28 Revisiting a Season 1 Classic on the Road to Episode 500
- 01:42 Early Ideas That Shaped Modern Cider: Wild Ferments, Pied de Cuve & Quince
- 05:00 Listener Notes on “Let Cider Lead” + The New Release Schedule
- 07:27 Who Is Randall Graham? Bonny Doon, Rhone Ranger & the Querry/Perry Tease
- 10:37 At Bonny Doon: Meeting Randall & Diving into Quince in Cider
- 11:16 How Quince Works: Steeping for Aroma, Tannin & Structure
- 12:57 Sourcing Fruit & Varieties: Oregon Quince, Crab Apples, Pear Blends
- 17:18 Blending Mindset: Acid Balance, Terroir Limits & Making Distinctive Cider
- 22:24 Cider Techniques & Inspiration: Eric Bordelet, “Pearoir,” and Biodynamic Reality
- 25:06 Scaling Down Bonny Doon & The Popelouchum/Wines-of-Place Vision
- 26:17 Dry Farming 101: No Irrigation After Vines Establish
- 26:42 Breeding 10,000 New Grapes for Disease Resistance & Terroir Complexity
- 28:33 Seed-to-Vine Timeline: Why Site, Sun, and Climate Change Everything
- 29:07 From Grapes to Cider Apples: Heterogeneous Seedling Orchards & Johnny Appleseed Logic
- 31:48 Project Popelouchum: Name Meaning, Location, and Why San Juan Bautista
- 32:47 Choosing the Land: Virgin Sites, Unique Geology, and ‘Closing the Circle’
- 35:30 Indigenous Yeast & Pied de Cuve: Building a House Fermentation Ecology
- 38:20 Cider Fermentation Reality Check: Stainless Tanks, Quince Timing, and Qvevri Dreams
- 40:41 Cider Style Choices: No Back-Sweetening, Vintage-Only, and What’s in the Lineup
- 43:19 Drought Years & Fruit Sourcing: When You Can’t Get the Crop
- 44:32 Wrap-Up & 10-Year Lookback: Popelouchum Estate Cider Collab and Where to Find It
- 50:39 Final Sign-Off & Closing Song: ‘Strange Apples’ Outro
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