516: Tasting Time | Totally Cider Tour ’26 – France

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00:00 Lost After Dark in Normandy

01:16 Finding the Trail Back

03:02 Welcome to Cider Chat

04:07 Reconnaissance in Étretat

08:25 La Mer à Boire with Jean-François Bougeant

10:05 An Unexpected Normandy Dinner

10:50 The Totally Cider Tour Begins

12:46 Meeting Jacques Perritaz

14:06 Learning to Work with Tannins

14:52 Drought, Deep Soil and Healthy Trees

16:04 Tasting Time with Eric Bordelet

18:43 Argelette Across the Years

23:27 Cormé and Transformation in the Bottle

25:48 Ted’s France Tour Reflections

33:16 The Magic of Low-ABV Cider and Poiré

33:43 Carla and Galen’s Tour Reflections

34:46 What the Calvados Cellar Teaches You

37:03 Learning from the Distillers

38:53 Discovering the Range of Calvados

40:28 Joyce and Andy’s Tour Reflections

42:21 Discovering Poiré and French Towns

44:41 Discovering Pommeau and Calvados

46:58 Martin on Aged Perry and Access

54:57 France Tour Wrap and Blossom Time 2027

Ria: [00:00:00] That’s the sound of the birds and a bottle. A little bit of liquid jiggle in there. Walking through this rather dense section. We’re, uh

I made the right turn. Let me check that. And yes, it’s another example of me getting lost so you don’t have to. That’s what it’s all about on the Totally Cider Tour. The adventure continues. Well, I think I’m going the right way. Maybe the birds are my guide. I’m kind of looking for the donkeys that were alongside this fence here.

It’s a nice hard packed trail. There’s a fence. I just don’t remember mother of all things holy. Okay. We’re gonna keep on going, [00:01:00] ’cause it’s gonna bring us somewhere. Could be worse places to be lost on a night where you know one of the paths are gonna bring you out to- A field, a plateau, a road. But you gotta be prepared.

Don’t be a dumb bunny. Pay attention while you’re walking. Notice what’s going around here. Yeah, I’m totally in the right spot. It’s a bit of a walk down from the parking area, but you know, it’s doable. I don’t know, I’m just so happy. I feel like my body is, uh, renewed doing that. Maybe I just don’t feel my body.

It could be that, too. Anyways, I’m seeing a clearing up ahead. I think that’s a good sign. Maybe it’s the area where the car park is on either side of the road. Let’s hope so. I just love the confidence that I [00:02:00] had walking in the pitch black surrounded by a murder of crows who I then figured out maybe they were just like witches warning me, “You’re going the wrong way, Ria.

You’re going the wrong way. Turn around. You’re not right.” Oh, great. Now the animal sounds have changed. You know what? I am in the wrong place. I know it. But I’m gonna keep walking this way ’cause it’s not much further for me to get out and I’ll be walking on the road. Live and learn, Ria. Live and learn. Oh, yeah, you’re right

And that’s how I ended up walking alone after dark, convinced I knew exactly where I was going. But I didn’t. I took the wrong turn, and I’m okay , because you know what? Totally Cider Tours are all about me getting lost so [00:03:00] you don’t have to. Hello.

My name is Ria Windcaller, and I am the producer and cider emcee of this weekly podcast, where we speak with makers, cider enthusiasts, and folks within the cider trade from around the world.

This here episode is number 516. If you go to the Cider Chat archives, you can listen to all 500-plus right now from over 10 seasons. We’re currently in season 11, so there’s a lot to be had. If you are a cider maker right now in the thick of it for the fall, where you’re picking apples, crushing, doing the ferment, trying to figure out different yeast to use, we have it all here on how to make cider, how to regulate that as it’s going into its fermentation journey, or maybe I should say your fermentation journey.

Whether it’s been your first time or [00:04:00] 20 times, making cider is a journey, and it’s also fun, which is what it’s all about here on Cider Chat. In this particular episode, we are diving into France because I just returned from a Totally Cider tour there, and my feet are still trying to touch the ground, uh, and just take it in like, “Did that really happen?”

And actually, what you just heard happened on my first full day in France. I was landing early before the tour the following week to do a reconnaissance for a potential French Blossom Time tour next April. And I really wanted to get to this region that I had heard about for so long. I actually had been to Étretat.

It’s on the coast. It’s this little village tucked in between two magnificent giant cliffs. They call them alabaster cliffs, so it’s white, white, [00:05:00] white cliffs, like a limestone that could be carved and, and there’s arches that are naturally formed. It’s just outstanding scenery, breathtaking. If you need inspiration, this is a place to come to and then some.

And I knew that I needed to get there first to do a hike and to be assured that it would be something that I could offer on a tour for different levels And make it really, really fun, and of course, have some cider at the end, which I did. But that was just day one, and I didn’t really plan on being there, uh, that evening.

It was already a full day. I just left Lisieux. I had spent the night there. I just picked up a pre-order from, uh, Patrice Giard and his daughter, Estelle, some Pommeau, and then I went over to see Antoine Marois to get some cider and Poire and ice cider. And while I’m thinking about it right now, I remember I [00:06:00] also stopped at a little hidey, hidey spot and tucked away a bottle of s- uh, what was it?

Poire from Domfrontais. That was the maker Pacory, which you may have heard of before. Uh, they have also been on the podcast Exquisite Poire, so that when I went there with my tour group the following week, I’d be able to pull out that cider, and I kind of figured it’d be a little bit cold too ’cause the nights were getting a little chilly, and guess what?

It was. It worked out perfectly. So, that was just, like, the morning, and then I was heading north to Étretat to check out the hike, and along the way, I snuck in an interview, one I wanted to do for a long time, with Marc Jaouen of Ferme du Pontet. This is a really incredible story of this farm and the land and what it had been used for, and they have award-winning Pommeau, actually much like, uh, [00:07:00] Patrice’s and Estelle’s Pommeau, that it’s not Solera.

You’ll hear about it. We’re gonna be talking about it. Look forward to that episode. And then I headed up north further to get to Étretat. So, it was a full day already, and I was thinking, “You know, I had planned the next day to do this hike,” which would be totally in the daylight, and I knew it was getting, you know, afternoon on, but I also thought, “Sunset, sunset,” and you know me, I’m all about Sunset Cider Club, and so I thought, “Let’s, let’s go.”

And I just wanna say, there’s something about that area. Uh, the history is amazing. The cliffs carry traces of the World War II occupation and the war while simultaneously being almost overwhelmingly beautiful And the thought just came onto me, and I’m sure it would come onto you. It comes onto anyone, which is, why is it so difficult for us to simply [00:08:00] live in harmony with what’s around us?

Despite being one very tired donkey on my way back to the hotel that evening, I was also absolutely elated, and I knew that this could be done. Not, not, not the getting, getting lost part. That’s what I do, not you. Uh, but the actual hike itself would work. And the next day, I went into Etretat, did more recon work, and met up with someone I, I hadn’t seen since 2020 at Cider Expo in Caen, which is in France.

And he was really instrumental in curating that entire experience, and his name is Jean-François Bougeant. And right by the sea in Étretat, he has a shop where you’ll find an extraordinary [00:09:00] selection of Normandy cider, Poire, Pommeau, and Calvados. And I love the name of his shop. It is La Mer, which means the sea, uh, boire, which means to drink or for drinking.

So literally, La Mer à Boire is something like the sea to drink. But there’s another layer to it. The French expression, C’est la mer à boire, describes something enormously difficult, almost impossible to accomplish. Sort of like saying, “You’re asking the impossible,” which considering I just managed to turn a simple walk back to my hotel into an extra 30, 40-minute adventure seemed rather appropriate.

Jean-François and I caught up on the time since we’d last seen each other, tasted some cider and some special product, a non-alcoholic product, which is made both with apple and honey and different herbs. It’s really a style called [00:10:00] oxymel, and it was absolutely delicious. I’ll tell you, it was good. And then somewhere in the midst of all that, Jean-François invited me to dinner at his home that night.

And what I didn’t realize was that I was about to walk into a gathering of friends whose friendship went back some 26 years. And in classic cider and French style, I was warmly welcomed. We sat down around the table filled with oysters, whole shrimp, and copious amounts of cider and Calvados. And before long, there was singing and dancing.

Uh-oh. He’s dangling the bottle. Sometime around 1:00 in the morning, we all reluctantly decided that perhaps it was finally time to call it a night. So that was night two of my France reconnaissance trip. From there, I slowly made my way back to Paris to kick off the fourth Totally Cider tour in France, and everything about this tour was a little bit different. [00:11:00] Instead of taking a bus out of Paris, we took the train into Normandy. It was a delightful ride and a really relaxing way to begin our week together.

We met up with some classic makers that have become part of these France tours, but we were also seeing a Normandy that had been dealing with a long stretch of heat and very dry conditions. Even though September had brought somewhat cooler temperatures, it was still warm. We saw parched ground and thirsty trees, and we heard about an apple harvest that was much smaller than the abundant crop of the year before.

And yet, overall, I found the makers surprisingly upbeat. More than once during this trip, I heard some version of cider going up, and I think that’s important to hear. We know cideries are closing. We know there are challenges, but at the same time, cider continues to move forward. New things are happening.

People are experimenting. There is still tremendous [00:12:00] energy around cider One of the things I like to do with every Totally Cider tour is change things up. I don’t want to simply repeat the same itinerary year after year. And this time, that included having dinner with two makers who have quickly become favorites of mine, Johanna and Louis of Domaine Johanna Sicilion in Brittany.

We sat down to this wonderful seafood dinner overlooking the water, drinking their cider, poiré, and getting to spend time together around the table. Then, in Domfrontais, I caught up with my friends Philippe and Marie-Claire, the poiré farmers I visited before. And somehow, I managed to come away with a bottle of 2009 Calvados.

So that made it safely back home with me. But there’s also someone I’ve been trying to meet for quite some time, ever since Cider Expo in 2020. And that would be Jacques Perritaz. Jacques made his name producing natural cider in [00:13:00] Switzerland before moving his work to a farm in Domfrontais. You would know it as Cidrerie du Vulcain.

Now, they are full-time making cider and, of course, working with extraordinary pears of this region to make poiré. And this all happened because I have to give a big tip of the glass here to my friend Matteo, who you might know on Instagram as @whoscideruon. Matteo is something of an itinerant cider maker.

He travels, works harvests, makes cider, and seems to know cider people everywhere he goes. I’ve been trying to connect with Jacques, and Matteo finally was able to bring the pieces together and make this visit happen. When we arrived, Jacques was right in the middle of harvest and pressing. What I found particularly interesting was hearing him talk about having to learn this new place.

He came to Domfrontais with years of experience making cider in Switzerland, but the fruit here presented him with something very different, particularly the amount [00:14:00] of tannin. Here’s Jacques talking about what happens when he started working with that fruit.

You know, here, the fruits they have a lot of tannins. In Switzerland, I was not used to that, to those tannins. So- I didn’t make maceration. And I started here, and I didn’t knew how to do with so- Ah … many polyphenols or no.

So I was very soft. Right. But I had a lot of problem with, uh, deposit in the bottles. Eeh. Yeah. So I have to disgorge it because it’s not nice to see. No, people don’t want to see it. No. They don’t want to see those worms in the wine. Yeah. You should just write on the bottle, “Shake to wake.” Okay? No. Yeah, we disgorge it.

Yeah. Right. And it’s, it’s quick. Yeah. It’s not a problem. Yeah.

And remember those dry conditions I mentioned earlier? Looking around Jacques’ farm, I was surprised by how well his trees were [00:15:00] doing. The grass showed the effects of the drought, but the trees told a different story. So I asked him how they’d managed through all that heat and so little rain.

Did you do anything for the trees here with the extreme drought?

No. Nothing. Just letting it… And how are your trees doing? Oh, very well. Okay. Here we have very deep soil. Okay. No clay? It’s, uh, , limestone. Lime- Limestone. Okay. Uh, and, um, very deep. Yeah. So also it is called Pré Mouillé. It means the pré mouillé.

The wet, meadows. Mm-hmm. So we have a lot of water in the soil. And, we have, yeah, no problem this, this Fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s crazy. Yeah. Only the, the grass was a little- yellow. And the trees are wonderful. See th-this one, it’s- Yeah.

And the [00:16:00] old, the older one, they were like that before, you know? It’s not because of- the drought.

And then there was dinner with Eric Bordelet. I’ve known Eric since 2016, and over the years I’ve tasted a lot of his cider, poiré, and his cormey, which he began producing in 2017. Cormé is made out of the fruit from the sorbus domestica, and there’s a lotta episodes on that in the Cider Chat archives.

Check them out. But this particular evening turned into something extraordinary, and it was really classic Eric. We sat down around the table, and he started bringing out bottles, and more bottles. By the time we were really underway, I think there were close to a dozen on the table. But this wasn’t simply a tasting.

He was taking us through time. He would pour different vintages of the same cuvée and ask us to notice what had [00:17:00] changed. A cider that he wasn’t particularly happy with right now might be exactly where he wanted it a year from now, and that was so fascinating to be brought through that progression or what they call transformation in the bottle.

Another bottle might be resting for years and had reached apogee, its peak. And then there was this one bottle. Eric had brought it up from his cellar looking exactly as it had been stored. The outside was covered in this black cellar mold. He hadn’t cleaned it. He just put it on this beautiful white tablecloth, and it was passed around.

Pretty soon there was black marks all over the tablecloth. Nobody seemed particularly concerned, and that was Eric. I’ve had one of his older bottles before, a 2007 Argelettete and it remains one of my favorite cider experiences. So when this old, [00:18:00] rather mysterious bottle appeared on the table, I was paying attention.

What followed became this wonderful combination of tasting, guessing, teasing, and learning because what Eric was really showing us was something that can be very difficult for a cider maker to achieve commercially, and that is time. Most makers can’t simply hold onto cider indefinitely. They need to sell it.

They need the space. They need the cash flow, and you need enough inventory in the first place to build a library of older vintages. Eric has that history behind him, and what we experienced that night was what can happen when cider is allowed to keep developing in the bottle. Let’s pull up a chair at Eric’s table and have a listen.

I like this one here. It’s, it has some character to it. Yeah, but I didn’t clean. I’m sorry. It, it’s very unique. That’s good, yeah. Can you all see this bottle here? Mm-hmm. Now, Eric, from you, I had a 2007 Argelettete [00:19:00] Hmm. And I brought it back home, and, uh- Last year. It could travel well. It, well, of course. Ah, oui.

I, I guard it with my life. And it was sublime. It was fantastic. Mm. It was like, uh- Ready to drink. Yes, ready to drink. Posé, we say down there. It, it- Posé. So wine needs some time, like this, like this, like this. And the, the residue is there, and it stay there. And we don’t know a long time, and after it start to be- Sure

better. But it’s a 2007, it’s there now. There. You could- Yeah, that was incredible. It’s like, you know. Yeah. The bottle looked a bit like this. Yeah. It had the yeast splatter. It was beautiful label. But- Across the custom with this. So this hide in your bag. With this face, do you think that I would be, you know, making trouble?

No. It really transformed. Allez. Yeah. You g- get your hand dirty with this bottle. Yes. You take by here if you pref- Be careful. Yeah. You m- you could take a little scrape of that home, and you could have some magic from- After the [00:20:00] tasting … the castle. Yeah. Okay, so you memorize it. Remember that one. So the same shape, the same cuvée, but one more year. So that’s 2024. Voila. And this is? ’23. ‘. We just finished ’23, and that’s why I wanted to have two vintage close together- Yeah … that you can understand what I’m not happy with the olfactive of the first one.

But that’s normal. Olfactive is not very… Wow. We finished to sell this one, ’23, but it, it stay one year on the tariff to sell it, to sell. Oh, okay. Yeah. But now there is no anymore. It’s ’24. But ’24 is not that ready, and it’s normal because it was a vintage as well, normal vintage, acidic, and kch. Mm-hmm. So that’s why. It’s just olfactive I want you to care more. Oh, yeah. Yeah, because it’s not just, uh, opened. I don’t have any more, uh, uh, ’23. Oh, so you opened these yesterday and- Yes, I like to- Oh

because Argelettete need breathe. Okay. Okay. And if you open just for the way, ’24 it will be nothing. So- Very good … open for a [00:21:00] day before, you can feel this, this olfactive here, aromatic. It’s much more ready. More, yeah, yeah. And you… Even tasting, it’s more everything is there. But the ’24, it will be the same in one year.

Oh. Eh, oui. Oh. You imagine when I, I did start, I was worried, but now you taste, oh. And you discover one year after, wow, that’s coming back. Wine, wine with some technique in a, in a winery, they’re the same. Nice. It’s normal because to bottle it, it’s a shock all the time. Even for wine, it’s a shock. So it need time to recover.

Yes. Voila. Of course. And it’s normal. And bubbles- Mm-hmm … because CO2, it’s oxidoreduction. You have different… That’s complex.

Right. So you had ’24, ’23. What vintage do you think it is? For this last one? Oui, oui, oui. That’s the question.

Okay, so, uh, Mad Vintage.

You have an idea. Any number. You, you don’t– It’s no [00:22:00] problem. It stay, it’s, it’s no microphone and it stay between us. Throw out a number. Throw out a number. Seventeen. Twenty, twenty seventeen. Seventeen. Okay, okay. Good. We try. That’s better. Okay, that’s good. Two thousand and two. Two thousand and two. No. 2010. 10? Okay. It’s similar vintage, 2010, but it’s not. It’s- And you? I said 2009. It’s a vintage you taste in your, you put in your flyer and you join me- No, this is not- It’s 2007 … because it t- it doesn’t taste the same.

It’s 2007. Maybe it was another year- But- … or 2003. I think maybe it was 2003. Because th- ’cause I remember it so vividly. It was almost like, uh, like a jam. It, it- Yeah, so it’s 2003. The co- confit, um, it was, uh, weird. Uh, compote, spicy- Yeah … tarte tatin or something- Yeah … caramel. It, it’s like- Caramel Beursault.

. Aha. Voilà. It’s [00:23:00] just nice to know how you can further improve when it’s aged.

What I realized after producing this episode is that I am dicing up the name Argelette. It’s not Argelette. And also, instead of saying Malus, he says Malus, which I just love. So I’m gonna try to remember that from now on.

It’s just hard to skip around the languages. And you gotta admit, he has a way with words. Voila. We’re gonna move on to this final clip with him, where he is now pouring us his product called Cormé. It’s made with the fruit from a sorbus domestica tree

so 2018 was the first year that you… I’ve got- Seventeen. 2017, yes. Right. ‘Cause I remember tasting that when I brought the first group in 2018.

Already? Yeah. I think- August de Vrille, remember. Yeah. So- so to explain, it’s, it’s about the roots- In a good way … the, the, the- The pear … [00:24:00] tree is going far away. It’s one or two roots. The apple tree is like umbrella.

Mm-hmm. The roots stay there and like umbrella. The Cormier, the Cormier, because that’s the name of the, the tree, Cormier. Corme, the fruit, a Perry has a lot of acidity because the roots are going far away in the rocks. Apple tree, it’s less acidity like a red wine, but the corm has the quality of o- the tannin of the apple and as well the acidity of the pear.

Mm. So 2018, it’s sap. You understand? Sap. Sap. It’s woody. Sap. Yep. It’s mushroom. It’s sap or you can have this.

It has transformed a lot. You, you … ‘Cause I, I’ve had this glass- Ah, oui, oui, oui, you follow that … all the way since like- I think we taste this one young maybe. Yes. When you came in ’18. . First time you taste the first vintage.

Yeah. Yeah. I really notice a difference. It’s, it’s, you know, the French use this term a lot, transformation, right? For… We don’t really use that, but I love it because it is exactly what we’re experiencing in the bottle as it [00:25:00] transforms and develops. Yeah. And as well I can feel it in the mouth. Yeah. One is the vintage, uh, light, lighter, normal vintage, and ’18 was sunny, and it, you can feel the tannin as well.

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Très bien. Voilà, it’s finish. Well done.

There’s one more thing about that dinner with Eric that I have to mention. He opened some of those bottles the day before we arrived. For Eric Bordelet, opening the bottle isn’t necessarily the end of the process. Some of these ciders need time just to wake up. In fact, with the Argelette, he told us that he opens it a day ahead because it needs to breathe.

And that says a lot about what we experienced around that table. We weren’t simply tasting cider. We were tasting time At the end of the cider tour, I like to turn the recorder on and ask the people who had actually traveled with me [00:26:00] what stood out for them, what they would remember. Because ultimately, what a tour like this comes down to is not how many cideries we visited or how many bottles we tasted, but the people you meet, the places you couldn’t have walked into on your own, and those moments you didn’t know were going to happen.

So let’s hear from the people who were there.

My name’s Ted O’Neill, and I’m from St. Louis, Missouri. And here we are sitting in a little orchard- Mm-hmm … right now in France, in the first kinda coolish day that we’ve had on this trip.

Yeah. Good drinking weather for cider and poire- … which we have been doing copious amounts of. Uh, I’d like to take this opportunity to just talk a little bit about the tour and your experience with it. Okay. I know you’ve, you’re very well traveled and, have a good appreciation for good libations. Mm-hmm.

Was there anything that surprised you in terms of the cider or the poire that you didn’t realize until you came here to [00:27:00] France? I think one of the bigger things that, uh, was I kept reading how French cider is sweeter, so I expected a lot sweeter, you know. But there was a lot more diversity and, I don’t know if you’d say dry or brut, uh, type that weren’t, you know, they’re not, uh, austere, but they were very, very smooth and very complex at the same time.

Mm-hmm. And, uh, a lot of the Calvados especially, the variety that was there. And, um, the one mead kind of th- threw me a little ’cause, Chouchen … Chouchen. Yeah. I had read about and tasted one that was, it was more like a cyser or a, you know- Mm-hmm … apple honey, … fermentation. But, this one was strictly honey, and a variety of honeys as opposed to just buckwheat honey.

Mm-hmm. So, uh, that was interesting to learn. It has more of a Celtic tradition. So. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Of this whole area that we were in, in, uh, Brittany, very linked to the [00:28:00] Celtic scene. Mm-hmm. Right. So, which I think surprises people. They just think France, France, France until you come here.

Right. It’s like, no, many, many populations have come through here. Right. Right. Anything that particularly stands out to you in terms of the different spots that we went along the way that you enjoyed? Uh, well, I enjoyed ’em all. That’s the problem. It’s hard to- Oh, wow … to pick one that was essentially better.

How many extra suitcases to bring? Yeah. That was a, that was my problem. Mm. I for- I didn’t realize that. But I liked, uh, all the casks, the large cask and how old some of them appeared, you know? Mm-hmm. And how well they were, uh, I guess maintained. Mm-hmm. And yet everything came out so clean from all the- I know

different samples that we’ve had. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, that and just- , the friendliness of everybody and how informative it was. Mm-hmm. And, uh, just it’s been a real pleasure. Well, it’s been a pleasure getting to know you. You’re, uh- … so much fun. We’ve shared a lot of laughs. Ah. Uh, walking up into the [00:29:00] abbey at Mont Saint-Michel was, uh

You’re, you- Walking down was scarier. Y- this is true, but I was, I was suffering going up in the heat. It was really the heat, but we made the best of it.

. I’m curious now that we’ve had so much French product- ’cause I know that you do judging and- you are a pommelier, of course.

I just passed the test. The more I, the more I- Now, now you’re a master pommelier, so. Oh, God. You didn’t know that we were sitting here- Oh, no. … taking you to this next level? A master pommelier. No, the more, the more I try, the more I realize I don’t know, is really- Well- … where it goes … that, that’s the right attitude to have But that’s, yeah.

So- But obviously you must feel like you could probably identify out of a, a complement of ciders that that is coming from the terroir of France at this point. At this point, yeah. I mean, it, it, uh, definitely is a lot more unique than the- Mm-hmm … when I went on an English tour last year, and those ciders were quite [00:30:00] different.

And of course, American ciders are different in their own way. Yeah. And some quite unique and interesting, you know? Yeah, now, the Calvados, were you a big drinker of Calvados? No, actually, I’ve never really had it. I mean, I think I’ve tried it maybe once. Mm. And it wasn’t that I was put off by it.

Mm-hmm. It’s just I’d never really focused on it. Yeah. And then coming here, that’s, that is the one thing that was a big surprise, was just how unique and yet delicious the Calvados was, you know? Yeah. It’s, it’s, uh, really quite a product. ‘Cause I’ve had pom- Pommeaux, um, primarily United States, you know, kind of approaches toward them.

He, he’s making a face. But… Hey. When you say United States, Pommeau, which doesn’t really have a register like it- No, it’s, it’s- … any kind of, like, standard, so you don’t- It’s not an official Pommeau … really know what you’re gonna get. Right. It, it goes the whole gamut. And so, uh, yeah, these were just a lot… They were very smooth and very nice.

I mean, just at what, about 17, 20% [00:31:00] alcohol- Mm-hmm … perhaps. Mm-hmm. And much smoother than the Calvados, but still- Mm. Of course, yeah … um, just as delicious and diverse. Yeah. Do you like the young Calvados or the older Calvados? Do you have a preference? I pre- I prefer the older ones. They have a little more complex character and- Mm-hmm

a smooth, a little bit smoother in a certain way. Mm-hmm. Why do you think, like we were hearing from the makers, that they don’t really export the older Calvados to the US. What, why do you think that is? I think my impression would be that, A, there’s not a lot of Americans who are very, uh, exposed to Calvados or aware of it.

Mm-hmm. And perhaps, you know, they’ve- And m- maybe it’s m- I don’t know. It’s, it’s, uh, very expensive to hang onto these for quite a while before you- Mm-hmm … get your, you know, your return. And so th- they know it’s probably appreciated more over here perhaps. Um, I, yeah, I really, I don’t know why, but I can see that if you’re sending a [00:32:00] bunch of older ones over and nobody’s buying them, it’s, you know, nobody’s gonna reorder them.

That’s right. And that’s probably how- Yeah … it might’ve stopped it earlier on if they were sending older ones and, uh, it’s like, well, we’re just not gonna bother- so I guess I would recommend you gotta go to France and drink a whole bunch of Calvados.

Well, yeah. And then you can like decide which one you actually like. Right. Do you want the one to make cock- cocktails with or the real sipping and- And don’t make the mistake I did and don’t br- uh, make sure to bring a bigger bag with you. A bigger bag. No doubt. Hey. Yeah. Uh, absolutely. You know, it, it’s hard because it’s like going to a candy store.

You’re seeing exquisite bottles. Right. We were drinking Poire here at lunch and- Mm-hmm … for like five euros. I know. I remember the one bottle I got over at, um, I forget where it was. A guy who was a maker or a woman? The fam- the mo- fa- grandfather and daughter, I think.

Oh, oh, uh, no, that’s the father and daughter. Father. Okay. Father and [00:33:00] daughter. Yeah. Patrice and Estelle. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Um, yeah, they had a 750 liter for four euros. I mean, uh- Yeah … and I pa- I bought a small beer for four euros. Yeah. So it’s like, oh. I know. And it’s so much more delicious. It’s really complex.

Mm-hmm. It’s just, you, it’s jaw-dropping experience for me every time I open that first bottle. Right. And you’re looking at also super low ABV. Right. 4%, 5% at the highest. So much drink- more drinkable and- Yeah … you can- Yeah … maintain, you know- Yeah … your wits about you, I guess you could say.

I, I really enjoyed this trip with you and- Oh, I appreciate what you’ve organized and put together ’cause it’s really gone smoothly.

Thank you very much.

I’m Carla Beaudet from Green Bank, West Virginia. Got a little orchard there, and I make a little bit of cider. Just a little. That’s what we love to hear.

Just, just a little bit to make life interesting, eh? Yeah. Yeah. And how about [00:34:00] yourself? I’m Galen Watts. I’m Carla’s husband. Also from West Virginia. Let’s hear a little bit about, your experience here in Normandy and Brittany. And Paris And Domfrontais.

Was there something that you were looking forward to o- on the tour that you wanted to experience? Definitely visiting the producers and their calvs and tasting their products and all that. And I, really feel like the tour came through on that for sure. Was there any particular producers that were, like, standouts for you? I particularly loved visiting the farm of the Girards. Estelle and Pa- Patrice and Estelle. Patrice, right. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Uh, the- their, their, their caves, their cellars with all the Calvados in there, just the massive, uh, what are those called in French?

I don’t know. Barrels? The… [00:35:00] No, the… Well, the, there are… Yes, there are barrels. Like a f- a foeder Foeder? It’s not a round barrel, but it

concaves in. Tapers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tapers as you go. Yeah, yeah. Those were just massive. I mean, you don’t see stuff like that except… The only other example I can think of is the Japanese tanks for fermenting, soy sauce. And making miso. Yeah. And those, those are, you know, made of cedar, and they’re different, but they’re on that scale, so.

Yeah. That was really cool- I never grow tired- … to see that … of seeing those barrels and going in that barrel room. It’s sss- And the aroma, right? You go down there and it’s just – Yeah … so fragrant. I think what, for me, that’s part of the education is you go in that room before you taste the Calvados, and you see how it’s, it’s transcended from the barrel, the room, and then into the bottle.

Mm-hmm. And, and it’s defined. You [00:36:00] could see how each domain has its own specific scent and flavor to it. And- Totally … that always, uh, really helps inform me in the tasting of it, and has definitely upleveled my whole experience there, so. Yeah. Yeah. That– I, I think that’s reason enough to visit a cidery or a Calvados producer. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I learned all kinds of stuff. Calvados Domfrontais contains pears. Now I know that. I didn’t know that. Oh, cool. Um- I, you know, just has been super educational and a lot of fun. Yay. Was there any particular towns that you enjoyed, like Honfleur versus Saint-Malo or those little towns?

Oh, they were all kind of eye-opening. I mean, never really been in a small French town before, so it’s just kinda like, wow. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you see pictures and many films of these little towns, but when you start, stumbling over the cobblestones, so to speak- [00:37:00] Just, yeah … it’s a different- Yeah

different thing entirely. Now, what’d you think about some of the, distillation setups? We had like the mo- the mobile, two- Mm … two mobile, the really big grand one that was at, Antoine Marois. Yeah. And then at Lemorton was that classic, uh, I don’t know, like it was so, uh, compact, the single distillation.

Mm-hmm. What’d you think about that? Yeah, it was, it was real interesting to see. I mean, we- there were two different styles. There was like the, kinda pot still. Mm-hmm. And then there was the, uh, the fractioning tower one. Column still. Yeah. Uh, picked up a couple of tips from Monsieur Dupont.

Oh. About temperatures of fermentation- Oh, good … and things l- you know, how to, how to work the distilling and how quick, slow you gotta do it, that kinda thing. Yeah, he’s a real master distiller. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. And each one, you know, had that like swan neck except for the, the stills that we were seeing in Domfrontais

Did- Mm-hmm … do [00:38:00] we see that? I don’t think we did. They don’t have it there in the Dom Fronté. Well, the- Yeah … the column still didn’t, didn’t have- Right. No … the, the gooseneck- Right … but the- Yeah … the, uh, cognac stills. Right. I mean, one of them, I think, uh, Monsieur Dupont’s still was a former cognac still. Mm-hmm.

I asked him kind of a few leading questions, and he sorta disclosed a few things like- Mm-hmm … you know, “What temperature do you ferment at?” He’s like, “Oh, about this or about that, depending on, you know- Oh, well done

the day and-” Yeah. Asked, uh- Asked a couple of producers, it’s like, “Oh, you know, when you, when you start the distilling run, who, who does the tasting to figure out when to go from heads to the mid body?” Yeah. And it’s like, “Oh, I do.” And it’s like, “Ah.” Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. And then, uh, for the big mobile still, the, the guy who runs the mobile still does the division of- Mm-hmm

heads to mid to tails to- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Have you, uh, ever experienced Calvados before, before coming here? Yes, yes. And now [00:39:00] that you’ve been here and you’ve been able to, like, visit the domains, any further thoughts about Calvados? Ob- obviously you probably enjoyed it already. I know you like spirits. Um, what do you think about some of the Calvados that we were tasting here?

Um- Versus like Pays d’Auge versus like Domfrontais where it’s pears versus- Mm-hmm … cider apples. Yeah, the, the difference in the, in the taste, uh, you know, how they, how they age them. Yeah. Some of them are aged in barrels. Mm-hmm. Some of them, you know- Mm-hmm … aged in the much larger- vessels-

we were talking about earlier. Uh, just You know, that’s, it just broadened my experience in Calvados. I mean, the, from what you get in the United States, and you really have to search to find it. It’s true. And I mean, you, you go into, go into some restaurants or bars, and they have no idea what you’re talking about when you ask about it.

And it’s like, “Well, but the bottle’s sitting right there.” I know. “Oh, really? I didn’t know what that was.” These traditions are really important. We can maybe analyze it scientifically, but, not, like, try to engineer [00:40:00] it from the top down without knowing anything.

Well, that’s why we come here. Yeah. To learn and be open and, and have fun. It’s been a real pleasure hanging out with you, walking about in the town, and just having your, your steady presence.

Well, likewise. Yeah. Thank you for running the whole thing and making sure we’re in the right place at the right time. Yeah. You did a good job herding the cats. You’re cool cats, so it’s pretty easy to do. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.

We’re Andy and Joyce Morton from Wadsworth, Ohio. And, , decided to join you ’cause we’ve been listening to your podcast for a bit.

Or I’ve been listening mostly. I, I send Andy- I, I listen to the one- … certain things … with Matt, so. Oh, oh, good. But, yeah. Well, that’s an important one. Yeah. And they’re talking about Matt of Bent Ladder in Ohio where you work at. Yeah. I work in his tasting room, pouring people cider and talking about it. Yeah, and what a good cidery- Awesome

to work at. It’s- Cidery and winery, I wanna say. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We have [00:41:00] cider and wine. Yeah. Now y- Orchards and vineyards … now you’re gonna be going back with this whole other level here. I know. Have you ever gone traveling for cider? It’s just, this is our first trip like that. Mm-hmm. Like, I mean, we’ve gone locally.

Like, any place we go if w- if there, there’s cider place on the way- Mm-hmm … that we can find, we’ll stop by.

, How did you get involved in cider and- we like to visit orchards and vineyards and breweries, and this one was close to us. Mm. Um, so one day I was sitting there like, “This is really beautiful. If I could work here that would be great.” And- Yeah … and so really I began learning about cider and wine after I started working.

‘Cause the other ciders I had tried were, like, commercial quality and- Yeah Woodchuck … Woodchuck and- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm … and Angry Inch. Probably shouldn’t mention those, but- They’re all cideries, so contribute. Yeah They, yeah, and they, they weren’t to my taste. Right. Um, obviously they’re to a lot of people’s taste.

Yeah. Um, but then I tried Matt’s cider and it was a revelation. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Let’s say his last name Matt Vadraska. He’s a [00:42:00] cider maker and his brother is the orchardist. Chris Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Chris and Amanda is, Chris’ wife and she- We’ll put a link in, into that episode

she works too. Yeah ‘Cause it, it is a, a definitely a destination estate cidery and winery to visit. And I always like to tell people it has a Malus sieversii, which is really very, very unique. So, so let’s talk a little bit about France, being here Were there any, , aha moments in tasting the product?

I had never had poiré. So, that was exciting and fun for me. Mm-hmm. And I loved really every version of it. Mm-hmm. Um, so that was interesting and I just loved seeing the differences between all the producers, um, personally and in their facilities. And it’s just, and it was just beautiful driving through the countryside and seeing the smaller French towns that we hadn’t had- Mm-hmm

a chance to enjoy as much. Mm-hmm. Loved Saint-Malo. Yeah. That was fun. Yeah. The old city, it’s just so beautiful there. Yeah. Honfleur. [00:43:00] Honfleur was lovely. Honfleur. Going down that little, uh, walking with y- our little group that night in those- Yeah … like, little alleyways. Yeah, the little alleys and just- Enchanting

you don’t get that kind of a feel anywhere in the US I don’t think. Yeah. I wasn’t sure if Poire was gonna be, you know, exciting to me or not, and it was.

And I liked, you know, that there were so many differences between the different Poires- Mm-hmm … and the different ages. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Um, not something I had explored before. Right. So that was fun. We were drinking some old stuff last night- Yeah … with ERic Bordelet. Yeah, when he said how old it was, I went, “Hmm, do I really?

Is that gonna be…” I mean, it was nice. Oh, yeah. The o- Everything was nice. Yeah. He wouldn’t bring in something that was o- Yeah. No, he wouldn’t. But- … not tasty to begin with. But yeah, that was, like, 2000… Like, 10-year-old Po- Poire. Yeah. It was incredible. I remember you saying that you didn’t really know Calvados.

You didn’t like it. And- Didn’t… The first time I tried it, wasn’t crazy about it. A few years when we were here, we bought a bottle. I think- Can I? … it was a little- Sure … a little too high in alcohol. Uh-huh. For my taste. A little, maybe [00:44:00] too hot. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I like to sit and smell it in the glass. Sure. And then I take a sip, I’m like, “Ugh, I don’t know.

That’s maybe a little much for me.” Yeah, yeah. But we did buy a bottle and- You did buy a bottle. Yeah, yeah. Well, there you go. We have some. Yeah. Yeah, we were visiting the beach at, you know, Normandy beaches. Yeah. And we just, we had five minutes before we get on the bus. We just bought a bottle. It was like, “Tell us what you want us to buy,” and then we bought whatever they told us to buy.

Uh-huh. And I don’t think it was… It was probably, in hindsight, it was probably pretty young. Uh-huh. And it was very hard, you know, sharp. Right. Like, spike-ish. Right. Yeah. And now we know that there’s smoother, the older, the better kind. Mm-hmm. Well, again, I mean, that’s relative to taste. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

If you like it young, that’s fine. What about Pommeau? Loved it. Loved the Pommeau. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. There’s, like, nothing there not to like. And I don’t usually like sweet things. Yeah? But I do like Pommeau. Yeah. It wasn’t… It’s not sickly or cloyingly sweet. It’s not super syru- syrupy sweet. Yeah, yeah. But there’s just a sweetness and, like, a complexity that’s- Mm.

Really fun. It’s a gateway to Calvados, [00:45:00] just so you know. Okay. This is my sinister way- It’s like a, maybe I’ll work in that direction … of bringing you along. Because I was exactly- Bringing you down a dark path … like you. I didn’t really… When I first came to France, I wasn’t a big fan of Calvados. I had to develop a taste for it.

So, uh, I know you’re bringing some back. Yes. And so- So we’ll, we’ll sit with that. And- By then you, like, kinda let it kinda meld. And you got a bottle from . Lemorton.

Cool. Yeah. Any specific, memories that you’re… You gotta kinda take it all in. Like, it’s a little- It’s a lot to process … we did a lot. Right? We did a lot. It was, it was delightful being in such a small group- Mm-hmm … and getting to really know our fellow travelers- Mm-hmm … and enjoy them a little bit.

Mm-hmm. And that one-on-one with the producers. That was, that was fun for me. Yeah. Yeah. It- We really had a sense of intimacy and- Yeah … and fun. Good vibes. Yeah, all the way through. Well, I just wanna say it was a super pleasure to be traveling with you both. And likewise. ‘Cause such accomplished travelers too. It’s been a delight. You know?

Like, like, and I just got to listen to Ria’s voice so much. I think I [00:46:00] mentioned that before, like, I just love your voice. Oh. Like, even if you weren’t talking about something I was interested in, I would probably still listen. Oh. ‘Cause I just love the quality and timbre. It’s like, I know you have a very- It’s the Calvados I’ve been drinking

soothing kind of… All the Calvados. See- Well … the well-aged oak in my voice has just kind of like- Just smoothed … smoothed it out. Yeah, I’ll have to try that. I look forward to that. See, I’ve got a follow-up with you on that For the next one. Check back in five years and see if my voice- Okay. Well, thank you so much- So cute

again. Thank you, Ria. Thanks for taking the time. Yeah. It’s been a delight. For your guidance and traveling around and- Yeah … yeah. And, and- My pleasure … yeah, and your, your co-host Pamela- Pam. Yeah, she was great … was outstanding. Mm-hmm. Yeah. She was- She’s a- … such an asset to the group too. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely, 100%.

Yeah. And- That was, that was one place where my expectations were, like, totally blown away, ’cause I thought it would be Ria and a driver. Yeah. Yeah. And so mu- she was so much more than a driver. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn’t have- Yeah, she- … worked with anybody better.

Martin [00:47:00] Hello Bonjour. Let’s talk about our trip here to France. Oh, it was fantastic. Oh. It really was, yeah. Um, even though I’m from England, South England- Even though

I can, I can actually come across to Normandy and Bretagne quite easily. Yeah. And I did so in May and June, just a few months ago. The thing is, I, I decided to do this tour because I felt, and I’ve… I’m cor- correct now, I know, that I can get so much more with, uh, being shown things that I would not normally see. . And it’s worked out exactly like that. I’ve met people that I… And had conversations with producers that I would not have had on my own- Uh-huh … just traveling alone. Yeah. And that’s what I love so much, and also had the great company of a, a bus full of really nice people as well- Yeah

which adds to it. Otherwise normally I travel alone, which is okay, but you know, I have a book to read, but it’s not quite the same thing [00:48:00] sometimes, you know? I understand. A bit of company and- Yeah … and, uh, yeah. You have immediate group of, uh, uh, friends to hang out with. That’s right, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it, it’s worked out very well, yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes, you know, you can get people you don’t really want to be with and- Mm-hmm … but this hasn’t been like that at all. I’ve, I’ve never experienced that on a tour- That’s good … yet so far. Okay. Knock on concrete. Yes. I’m sure you do know French cider.

And was there any like a-ha moments, uh, for you? I’m not used to the more aged perries particularly. Mm. I’m used to aged ciders es- Yeah … especially in Eng- in England, but aged perries, that was completely new for me. Okay. The perries we get in, uh, in England, which are pretty much from the what they call the three counties area- Yeah

which are Worcestershire, Gloucestershire. They, they’re rarely aged more than two years. So they’re all fresh, nice, but have aged perries sometimes in cask, sometimes not, um, was a true, true experience for me. You know, the, the how it [00:49:00] changes- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm … and yeah, so that’s what I loved, I think, the most- Yeah

the, the aged perries. I li- well- Mm … I, I could totally relate to that. And we had a wide range of styles of the poire. Yes, we did. Yeah. You know, depending on the maker from- Mm … uh, and well, you know, Johanna her, uh, poire to Lemorton to Jacques. Yeah, yeah. Jacques Perritaz, all those different perries that he had.

Um- Yes, yeah … and then of course Eric Bordelet . That was fantastic, yes. Yeah. And a lovely man as well, yes. He was lovely. And I wanna say he really enjoyed you. Oh, did he? Oh. In particular you represented in a way as like our one commercial producer on the trip here and, um- I think he, he enjoyed…

And you know, you, he was quizzing you quite a bit, but you were- He was … you were s- I was starting to get a little bit worried there Well, you were spot on, on all the answers. And, uh, I think he appreciated that. Okay. Yes. Yeah. All in good fun. I guess it’s good for him to talk to people who know what [00:50:00] they’re talking about, I started to do it because I know how to do it. You should do. Yeah. And I can say to them, “It’s all right. I’m one of you.” Yeah. And they, they always quiz me, then, then finally you go, “Oh, we trust you now.” And I think Éric Bordelet is like, “Who are you?” And then once you get the, given the correct answers- Yeah

“Ah.” Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense. Mm. Yeah. Well, let, let’s also share too, you, you write for CAMRA. Yeah. Uh, the Campaign for- For Real Ale … Real Ale. Although it late, in later years they added cider to it as well. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Some people reluctantly, but you know, you know. Well, you gotta be- It was, it was a democratic vote and, um I know.

It’s a interesting dynamic between the ale or the beer and the cider. And you also have your own commercial cider brand. Yes. It’s not a, a large operation. Mm-hmm. Um, in gallons, 500. Though last year was a massive crop of tiny apples. Mm. So I made [00:51:00] 550 gallons, which is good because there’s nothing this year.

It’s disastrous in Britain and in Normandy- Mm-hmm … and Britain- Mm … as well. Yeah. But, you know. But, but it, it goes with the territory. An easy fall, as you would call it in the States, or autumn for the- Right … British listeners. Yeah. Well, and we’ve been in… You’ve seen the drought here. Yeah, yeah. And France equally hit hard by the heat.

Yeah, yeah. Um, and yet the perries, the pear trees have just been surviving, albeit some better than others. But more or less we heard from most of the producers who are doing, uh, Poiré that- Mm … their trees were, were surviving pretty, pretty well. For those in especially Normandy where they have deeper soils- Yeah

the, now the, the, the perry pear tree Have deeper roots Yeah And they can survive the drought better. Yeah. Is there any particular towns that you enjoyed more than others? Oh, I just love this area. British people, when they move abroad, they move to North France.

They come over here [00:52:00] because it’s greener.

It’s just, just the atmosphere is just relaxed. Yeah, it is. It’s a good relaxed- Yeah … yeah. Yeah. I love how we get kind of stopped along the way. We think we’re getting somewhere fast, and we just have to slow- Yeah …

I just liked everything. Yeah. Every town has something to offer.

Calvados Ah, yes. Well- So … that was special because, um, really in the UK Calvados is virtually unknown. If you go to a bar- Interesting … obviously we’re gonna get a lot of whiskey. Yeah In some places, you know, we have, uh, 60 different whiskeys.

If they have something from France, it’s going to be brandy or, you know, that’s it. Yeah. Yeah And only two makes normally. You know, Hennessy and- Yeah … and Courvoisier. Right That’s what you’ll get. Right And that’s the two choices. Big brands. Uh, a choice of two is not a choice. You ask for , a Calvados, and it’s like, “So a what?

A Calva- uh, it’s like brandy. Oh, we got brandy. We’ve got Courvoisier.” And that’s not… no, no. And so [00:53:00] it’s frustrating, so yeah. So the only thing I’m, apart from my eight books that I’ve, in French that I brought back- I love that. You got eight books here. I have… The only thing I brought back in glass i- are two things.

A Calvados, 1999, and a small pack of three different vintages that I bought. Mm-hmm. So I don’t have a lot of space, you know. No, no. But yes, that’s, uh- You’re taking the train back? Train and then bus to Bristol. Fantastic. Yeah, so yeah. Yeah. Yeah, nice way to go. Mm. Well, I, I would say that’s a good choice. Mm.

Because the Calvados or the, the bottle of, uh, cider will open up and be gone in that one sitting, right? Yeah But the Calvados- Yeah … can last two years. Yeah. L- well, uh, yeah. That’s a bit of optimism. I would… That, that was a test. Yeah. Well, yeah. Oh. Yeah. Trouble is when you have one, “Well, I’ll just one more before I go to bed.”

Well, just so we get more. And then next thing you know, you’ve, you’ve got to remember the, “Oh, what was I watching on television?” [00:54:00] We’re the Winnie Poohs of Calvados. Yeah. Some people like honey, we go for Calvados. Oh, yes. And I brought two jars of honey because- Oh, good …

well, thanks, Martin. Yeah. I mean, I, I feel like- It’s been great. Yeah … I, I’ve been getting to know you over time. Mm-hmm. Uh, when I’ve been to the UK with my tours and been able to, have you be our meet and greet there- Oh, yes

in Bristol We’ve met I think twice now, isn’t it? So, uh- Yeah. It’s been really lovely. And as a fellow writer about, , cider- I know what that work is like and I think, uh- Yes. Well, I’m not a professional writer. I do my best, you know? Yeah. You do your best. Yeah. And just tip of the glass for that because- Mm

we need people who are energetic and, uh- Well, the local cider makers appreciate what I’m doing. I get- Absolutely … a lot of thanks for it, you know? Yeah, yeah. Whether it helps them or not, I don’t know. But we’ve got to keep trying. Absolutely. If you don’t try, it all goes down. Mm. You’ve got to keep it in the, in the v- in view of everybody, yeah.

I agree. On the taste buds of everybody. Right. Merci beaucoup. Okay. Merci à toi. Merci.

And there you have it, another Totally Cider [00:55:00] tour in France in the books. One of the things I love most about these tours is that no two are ever quite the same. There are places we plan to visit and the makers we know we’re going to meet, but then there are all these unexpected moments around the table, in the orchard, in the cellar, or somewhere along the road that becomes part of the story.

And guess what? We’re going back. The next Totally Cider tour to France will be in April for blossom time, when the orchards should be waking up and the trees are coming into bloom. If listening to this episode has you thinking, “I’d like to be there,” send an email this way to info@ciderchat.com and let us know you’re interested in the France blossom time tour.

I’d love to have you along. And with that, I leave you here. This is Ria Windcaller signing off for now. Looking forward to seeing [00:56:00] you in Ciderville. We drink it like this. There is a reason why we do it like this. There is a reason. There is a reason

why we do it like this. We like cider. There is a reason why we do it like this. We like pomme. There is a reason why we drink it like this. There is a reason why we do it like this. Yee-haw!